Pilots vs. Fixers

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EDGEFLY
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Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by EDGEFLY » Wed Jul 29, 2015 22:10

As I start this post, I realize that all kinds of hell and condemnation will probably come down upon me for even suggesting that flying Aeroncas and discussing the nits and pics of such tiny adventures should be not only an important topic of discussion here but in fact should be more important than which dilapated carcas is about to receive a spot of paint or heavens more important a totally new bolt which is no longer AN but can be substituted for with a NOW MS defined numbered item ! Are there any members here who actually fly their machines anywhere ? Or, is this a collection of mostly old men hiding in their hangars where they are safe from the no smoking laws ? Well I am older than most of you and thick-skinned enough to absorb the abuse so go ahead and tear me up if you wish, The Marine Corps taught me to fend off such trivia and prepare for the next day. So whack away and enjoy yourself doing it. I don't care. People who devote so much of their time and resources on Aeroncas SHOULD BE FLYERS !! Let's talk about birds in the Air not the barn swallows nesting on the hangar beams.

I spent a couple of days at OSHKOSH and saw a total of three AERONCA aircraft in the vintage parking and camping areas. Two Chiefs ( one was Ray's past yrs. Best of Show) and one Champ. There might of been more in the North Forty but I was so disappointed that I didn't even trudge that far to look. There were about 6 Stinsons in the vintage area also. Where were you all. Painting your lawns in suburban Ca ? Can't we have some interest in flying on this forum ? Wrenching is fine but it should result in actual flight. Yes, I missed MIDDLETOWN 2014 due to the weather but I have no apologies for still being alive. I'll be there in 2016 and I hope a lot of you will be too.

So go ahead and sharpen you knives and spears and have at me. If there happen to be any folks who still love that special sound of an Airkocker, I'd certainly love to have you join in as well. For those of another mind, don't forget "A stone thrown cannot recalled"

Dale

Paul Agaliotis
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by Paul Agaliotis » Thu Jul 30, 2015 00:35

Dale,
I don't think your views are bad at all. Out here in CA we have many, active Aeroncas. There are two problems with flying from the West Coast, the Sierras and the Rockies. I still work so the time required is tough to get. I try to fly as often as possible and currently have my 16 yr old flying the Champ.
Many of the get-together's have been cancelled for insurance and attendance, as most are city's and airport sponsored events. The EAA is still strong but my opinion is they don't have aviation as their #1 priority.
I try to answer many of the technical questions as possible, not because I'm so smart, because I own 15 of the Aeronca and related airplanes I have to say that I enjoy working on them just as much as flying them.
I think we need a West Coast Aeronca event on the odd years.
Paul
Mailing Adress : Paul Agaliotis 2060 E. San Martin, San Martin,Calif. 95046

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rkittine
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by rkittine » Thu Jul 30, 2015 04:36

Hey Dale,

I total get what you are saying. This year I did not hold my annual Tube and Fabric Fly In at Warwick. This was for a number of reasons. Last year, there was very little turnout and next year I will not be doing it again either. My experience lately has been that there are a lot of people flying their planes, but only go on the forums when they need information about something that they can not get from Hanger Flying at their home airport.

There are also a lot of other forums with more of the type activity you are talking about. www.SeaplaneForum.com has a vast combination of:
Advocacy Threads
Technical Threads
Post Pictures of your Airplane Threads
Fun Flights
Off Topic
It is EASY to upload pictures on that site and if memory serves me, the last time I tried to upload a picture here (have tried on a regular basis) there is no bandwidth left on the site for it.

I find this the same case with all the other type forums that I am on. Most people doing things are out there doing them, otherwise they are asking questions so they can fix things so they can be out there doing things - New optics for a rifle so they can go out and shot, but not to post them shooting, or a new dive computer recommendation that is then purchased and used, but not further posted about.

With regard to the EAA. In my opinion, they are catering to a different market then what was their original plan. I no longer go to Oshkosh and doubt if I ever will. At this point of my life, my days of flying heavy metal are over and I am happy to enjoy putting around in my old favorites and soaring in a glider.

Hope to see you one of these days, how about the Cooperstown Fly In Breakfasts?

Bob
Robert P. Kittine, Jr.WA2YDV
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C.
New York, New York 631-374-9652
rkittine@aol.com

MikeB
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by MikeB » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:09

Interesting points of view. In my case I owned a Cherokee 140 for 25 years and it was mostly used for recreational flying about (airport hopping) with an occasional longer trip. I reluctantly sold it after I finished restoring my first Champ as I had to decide which child had to go due to insurance, hangar, maintenance, etc. I just turned 76 a few days ago and I do spend most of my time with the restoration process having completed the restoration of my present L16A which I intend to keep as long as I can continue flying and in the process of restoring a 1948 11CC Chief. I enjoy the process of rescuing a pile of parts from a dark hangar or garage and bringing it back to life. It's not a paying process though and I'm sure I spend more money than I'll ever get out of either project. I think I broke about even on my first Champ but it's just a hobby like the golf my wife plays and yes, I do hang around the airport with other loafers when time allows.

Because I'm only on the other side of the state I do fly to Oshkosh when I can but I do watch the weather and if the weather is "iffy" I'll drive. I agree Oshkosh is not what it used to be which was a gathering of aircraft owners, etc. for a friendly reunion and sharing. Now it's a 'big ticket' place where you can buy "Billy Bob teeth" (really seen this) and there are corporate tents where those of us from the great unwashed are not allowed to tread. By the way, with maybe the exception of one year, I've been to Oshkosh every year since the first in 1969 or 1970 and we parked on the access road right where the primary gate is now. I understand the need for corporate sponsorship as the event has grown beyond anyone's expectations and along with it the cost to put it on, pay for the porta potties, etc. even with the tremendous amount of volunteers that show up. I have a friend who spends a solid week or two before the convention helping getting things ready, putting up tents, fences, etc.

Finally (back to reality) I still fly whenever I can but usually no long trips anymore. Even when I owned my Cherokee I never flew it to Texas to visit my son and his family as it was cheaper to fly commercial and not have to worry about getting stuck with bad weather somewhere along the line. On the other hand, it would be kind of an adventure in my L16. After all I'm not in a hurry in get anywhere ....... :wink: .

Should also mention we have a friendly little airport (3WN9) which is owned by the flying club where a number of us gather to tell lies and judge landings on a regular basis. We usually have a number that fly in on Saturday morning because the coffee is free and the conversation stimulating .....more or less.

By the way, thanks to Paul for answering my many questions over the years.

Mike Berg

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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by Holcombe » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:13

I've just returned to Oregon from Oshkosh in my 7CCM. This year there was a bunch of weather rushing around and several days I spent more time by the hotel pool than in the air dealing with forces beyond my control.
Not withstanding it is a two week vacation from the West Coast to fly there and back so that makes it difficult for people still working to get the time off and not feel compelled to fly too long or too late in the day.
There were a bunch of Aeroncas there this year but they were scattered throughout Vintage and on down to the South Forty. Perhaps an area could be reserved for us closer to the food and showers as the Stinsons and C-195s do. Then we would be easier to find.
As for the trip, I've made the trek eight times in the Champ and it is truly do-able with convenient stops away from controlled airspace. With a little planning there is no need to get stuck in a place without transportation to a good clean hotel with food, a bar, and a pool for the afternoon when the heat is on the day.
From the Great North West the mountains can be crossed Coer d'Alene to Cutbank, Montana on one tank of gas or with a stop at Kalispel if following the highway through. There is no need to be in the Mountains after lunch time. There are other routes through further south for those from more crowded, hotter areas.
The two weeks costs less than a single week at a decent resort and the folks I meet are friendlier and always helpful. Maybe they think because I appear to be wandering that I am lost?
Tail winds are a "Good Thing"

MikeB
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by MikeB » Sun Aug 02, 2015 20:37

It would be nice to have all the Aeroncas in a common spot (I think that's called Middletown :wink: ) rather than having to wander about searching for Champs and Chiefs to droll over. Several years ago there was a spot reserved for Aeroncas but of course, it was one of the years I couldn't fly for one reason or another. I'm not sure how one goes about reserving a spot for particular brands (Aeroncas in this case) as they seem to stick you where ever in the vintage area. In my case I could park my L16 in the war birds "L series" area but it's too remote from where the action is so I prefer to use the vintage area where there are folks to talk with.

Mike Berg

EDGEFLY
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by EDGEFLY » Mon Aug 03, 2015 22:03

Mike,

I certainly agree about Middletown and have every intention of making it in 2016. I'm already making arrangements to allow that to happen but the NAA SITE is still full of stuff about 2014. Even Oshkosh was poorly prepared to provide information for this years' show early on and it unquestionably hurt the people who hadn't made a previous trip or were able to travel with a veteran. With all of the talk of getting young people involved, it seems obvious that both shows could do better on that score.
I got the impression that the kind of gathering information you refer to was supposed to be available thru "type clubs" and in fact there was quite an amount space available in the Vintage Red Barn for just that purpose. For the two days I was there, it was simply that nothing happened due to a lack of AERONCA- oriented attendees. Maybe we can stir up enough interest next year to set up a gathering time and spot so that there will be a better chance at camaraderie and such. If there werelots of Aeroncas around, they sure passed up fine space in the vintage camping area and that is surely one of the best places to be as regards the main convention area.

Hope the planning for Mtown 2016 gets kicked off soon and we have weather for it like we had for OSH this year.

Dale

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hangerash
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by hangerash » Tue Aug 04, 2015 20:12

There is Blakesburg and Lee Bottom (Champs vs Cubs is the goal) coming up this year. Get in your Chief and do some of the flying you are talking about and then you can post pictures and tell us all about it.

If you haven't heard of either of these venues you should probably read a bit more before commenting.

Blakesburghttp://www.antiqueairfield.com/flyins/attending.html

Lee Bottomhttp://www.leebottom.com/FLY%20IN%20information.html

EDGEFLY
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by EDGEFLY » Thu Aug 06, 2015 20:16

Hangerash,

Posting pictures is always neat way of sharing inflight experience but is, of course, discouraged here by forum practice. Although, I prefer to meet people (and planes) face to face in person. Will you be present at Blakesburg and Leebottom ? Yes, I have heard of them. A good friend is planning on being at Blakesburg with his MONOCOUPE 90AL. Look for N38905. It' worth anyones' time.

Would offer some recent Pa. experience for anyone passing by. At 6G1 had a "DRY GULCH" recently on a Saturday AM. No one in attendance, buildings locked and papered over with landing fee notices while the Credit Card pumps were inoperative. All's well that ends well though. Went on over to KFKL and ran into a blitzkrieg of fine people, excellent service and a very nice little airport being run as it should be. In addition to small shuttle operation , discovered 11 vintage aircraft hangared there. I can heartily recommend this place ! Haven't been to 4G1 nearby but know they have an A&P there who is no stranger to AERONCAs.


BTW, there is a weekend vintage gathering at KBTP northeast of Pittsburghlater in August.

Dale

EDGEFLY
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by EDGEFLY » Thu Aug 06, 2015 20:16

Hangerash,

Posting pictures is always neat way of sharing inflight experience but is, of course, discouraged here by forum practice. Although, I prefer to meet people (and planes) face to face in person. Will you be present at Blakesburg and Leebottom ? Yes, I have heard of them. A good friend is planning on being at Blakesburg with his MONOCOUPE 90AL. Look for N38905. It' worth anyones' time.

Would offer some recent Pa. experience for anyone passing by. At 6G1 had a "DRY GULCH" recently on a Saturday AM. No one in attendance, buildings locked and papered over with landing fee notices while the Credit Card pumps were inoperative. All's well that ends well though. Went on over to KFKL and ran into a blitzkrieg of fine people, excellent service and a very nice little airport being run as it should be. In addition to small shuttle operation , discovered 11 vintage aircraft hangared there. I can heartily recommend this place ! Haven't been to 4G1 nearby but know they have an A&P there who is no stranger to AERONCAs.


BTW, there is a weekend vintage gathering at KBTP northeast of Pittsburghlater in August.

Dale

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hangerash
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by hangerash » Sun Aug 09, 2015 06:29

Dale,

Posting pictures is not discouraged here to the best of my knowledge. The hosting site doesn't have a lot of storage space and I'm sure you are aware pictures take up a lot of space (megabits for hi resolution vs kilobits for thumbnails). You simply have to host your pictures somewhere else and share the link to them.

The NAA Facebook page is a behive of activity of Aeronca pilots flying everywhere and it seems much more user friendly for posting pictures.
Richard

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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by MikeB » Tue Aug 11, 2015 22:12

While I do post on the NAA Facebook page I really prefer this site for the search and history functions.

Mike

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hangerash
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Re: Pilots vs. Fixers

Post by hangerash » Wed Aug 12, 2015 17:40

Exactly Mike. This site is a repository of knowledge shared over the years and too frequently the answer to many questions has already been given in a previous post.

Facebook is a social site and seems much more receptive to the discourse Dale seeks to initiate discussing flying destinations and experiences.
Richard

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