Outside the envelope

Everything about your Aeronca, not Chief or Champ or Sedan specific.
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Red(neck) Barron
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Outside the envelope

Post by Red(neck) Barron » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:31

That would be the Aeronca envelope anyway. I've been considering selling the Champ and looking for a nice 150 horse Citabria. Mostly I wanted an airplane like the Champ on steroids. However I have been in contact with a fellow who has a mid 70's Decathlon for sale that looks to be in good condition and has favorable hours and fabric and at a reasonable price. I'm not too big on flip flop flying for the most part, just like cruising with my arm out the window and playing around locally. So I'm wondering if the more acrobatically designed Decathlon might be more of a departure than I want from the 'cow pasture' type of flying that I do. Or could it be that I will find the extra sharp handling will put such a smile on my face as to forgive the little extra runway that I may need. I don't really do any real cow pastures or other off field excursions.

So I know that no one on this board can tell me how I'm going to think or feel (if you can I've got a lot more questions for you) but I figured that there wasn't any better source for real info than right here. If you have some stick time in Champs and Decathlons or Citabrias for that matter I would appreciate some general comments about your perceptions of the variances of the different models. It may or may not, probably not, change what I ultimately do but I love to gather all the info I can about anything that I venture into for the first time. I've only flown a couple of Citabria's and that was a long time ago and I've never been in a Decathlon.

Please don't bother to tell me to keep the Champ and forget the others. I already know that argument and it remains a possibility.

Thanks,

Larry
Larry H
Sigourney, IA
Formally N84619, N84149 & N84069 - all1946 7AC's
Currently N57430 7ECA (Still a Champ, just grown up some)

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hangerash
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by hangerash » Fri Aug 30, 2013 13:18

Larry,

If you want to go faster from point A to B, buy the Citabria or Decathalon. If you want to do aerobatics, buy the Decathalon. If you want to hop from one runway to another, put a tent in your Champ and head to Blakesburg (IA27) for this weekend. :D

Richard
Richard

Paul Agaliotis
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by Paul Agaliotis » Fri Aug 30, 2013 16:32

Larry,
If your needs are for more power go for the 7GCAA. Good plane and plenty of power, it flys like a fat Champ with 24 gal of fuel and a full electrical system, but has the power to haul all of that crap.
Before you decide on the 8KCAB, go fly one, they fly nothing like a Champ or Citabria. They have the power but lack the stability of the others. Once you flatten the prop for landing they fall like a greased locomotive, I don't dump the prop until short final. The're not a bad plane just not a Champ or Citabria style plane.
Paul
Mailing Adress : Paul Agaliotis 2060 E. San Martin, San Martin,Calif. 95046

jc pacquin
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by jc pacquin » Fri Aug 30, 2013 20:40

I owned a very nice champ 7bcm with a recent redone 85hp. Nice little airplane, fun to fly. I bought it after I went (had to) go light sport. It was a big disapointment from the 150 HP Citabria I had been flying alot. The two fly very much alike because they ARE very much alike in design -handling except the Citabria gets off quickly, climbs quickly, gets out of shorter fields and flys two people much better. It was a GCBC and I really liked it alot. The decathlon (I flew one, not mine) a few times and it really goes but 180 HP is overkill if your not doing aerobatics. Expensive too! A nice, real nice GCBC should be 50- 60 grand or if your real lucky less. My vote would be a nice redone GCBC, great airplane (this model.) I was never an aerobatic type. Only did an occasional loop or wing over. The GCBC does this and much more if you must. Good luck!

jc pacquin
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by jc pacquin » Fri Aug 30, 2013 20:49

I forgot, the GCBC is 150 HP, mine was mid time engine, a performer! When I mention price I'm talking one in real nice shape, good radio, paint, interior, engine, strobes, etc. JC

Red(neck) Barron
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by Red(neck) Barron » Fri Aug 30, 2013 21:55

The GCBC or GCAA was what I had been looking for. This 8KCAB just grabbed my attention because in all the main areas, total time, time since major, fabric, age and overall condition it looks really good, and the price is quite reasonable and it's a 150 horse which is fine with me. I guess I'm trying to decide if I like the smell of a dish by reading the recipe. Only way to really know it to get in one and fly it.

Good feed back Paul and JC; thanks a lot.
Larry H
Sigourney, IA
Formally N84619, N84149 & N84069 - all1946 7AC's
Currently N57430 7ECA (Still a Champ, just grown up some)

jc pacquin
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by jc pacquin » Fri Aug 30, 2013 23:03

Try both or all. I'm not familiar with the model Paul is talking about. I would look into his suggestion also. He knows these aircraft better than I do.

bob turner
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by bob turner » Sun Jan 26, 2014 02:15

I own a Super Decathlon and two Cubs. I have trained pilots in the Champ and the Citabria. For pure fun in and out of short fields the Cub wins. the Champ and Citabria are close seconds.

I like the Decathlon, and mine does not drop out of the sky as above, but it is not a taildragger trainer. A pilot who learns in the Dec will have to learn all over again in a Champ or Cub.

If you have the bucks, and are staying with Champion products, the best all around is the 160HP Adventurer. I think it is GCAA.

dikholder
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by dikholder » Sun Jan 26, 2014 03:55

I wold pick the Citabria 7GCBC over just about anything else. For all around 2 place tandem flying its hard to beat. The flaps on the GCBC make it a better choice for me, esp if you put it on floats.

Dik Holder, N1441H
Queen of the Berry Patch

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rkittine
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by rkittine » Sun Jan 26, 2014 09:02

For a two place tandem on floats, my best experience has also been with the 7GCBC. The Flaps are a great addition. Still can't take two large guys and more than half fuel with the 150HP, but lots of fun. Great trainer if you are not looking to take a lot of added equipment (camping / fishing).
Robert P. Kittine, Jr.WA2YDV
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C.
New York, New York 631-374-9652
rkittine@aol.com

Red(neck) Barron
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Re: Outside the envelope

Post by Red(neck) Barron » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:42

For what it's worth, the question has been resolved. Kind of odd how things end up but I bought a 7ECA. I suppose you can call this a compromise airplane although what airplane isn't. I gave up on that Decathlon that I was looking at and went back to all models Citabria. Three key things stood out, I could find a very nice ECA or a very average GCBC or GCAA for similar monies. Favor goes to the ECA. The ECA also has higher useful load and lower fuel consumption. Dollars do play into my decision making process. Only thing missing is the extra performance from a 150 hp.

As to my assessment of the Citabria over the Champ. My very first impression was that I couldn't get my long legs into it. I seem more tightly packed in than in the Champ. At 6'2", 250 lbs and size 13 shoes, I do require some space. My second impression came on take off where it liked rolling down the runway quite a bit further (at least it seemed so) than the Champ but then the Champ has a 90 and VG's so it doesn't spend much time getting itself ready to take to the air. After that everything goes in favor of the Citabria. I immediately notice a more solid, heavier feel to the aircraft, more responsive flight controls and especially a more sensitive trim. I even think that the Citabria is easier to land than the Champ just because of it's heavier feel. Even though the power loading is similar between the two, the Citabria has the edge on climb and cruise performance as well.

In all, I am pleased with the choice I made, however this still leaves me looking for the next move. Next time, if there is a next time, I'll go for the 150 at least.

Oh, I've still got the Champ and it's listed on Barnstormers and Trade a Plane if you know anyone interested. I sure can't afford two of these things.
Larry H
Sigourney, IA
Formally N84619, N84149 & N84069 - all1946 7AC's
Currently N57430 7ECA (Still a Champ, just grown up some)

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