Fuel Survey

Everything about your Aeronca, not Chief or Champ or Sedan specific.
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Rich Valler
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Location: UK, South coast
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by Rich Valler » Tue Jun 05, 2012 06:49

Richard wrote:.... So now I'm stuck paying $5.40 for 100LL until I can find another outlet.
Current price at my base airfield on the South coast England for Avgas 100LL is roughly $12.80 per US gallon.

Let's not mention hangarage costs and (compulsory) insurance .....

:(

Rich

MikeB
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by MikeB » Tue Jun 05, 2012 09:18

So far I've been able to get ethanol free mogas from our local Cenex station. The price has dropped somewhat recently but I'd guess probably around $3.70 per gallon. I filled with 100 LL recently and the price was $4.99 per gallon. Only problem is I have to fly 30 miles to get it which doesn't make a lot of sense. I have around 22 hours on the engine so I'm starting to mix 100LL and a little premium mogas although I'm still trying to use as much 100LL as possible.

MikeB

Dennis
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by Dennis » Tue Jun 05, 2012 18:24

Mike, I can still get ethanol free regular gas at several stations in town. I have been running my cherokee 235 on regular mogas for over 1200 hours. I am starting to mix 4 to 1 with the Champ with about 17 hours.

Dennis

MikeB
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by MikeB » Tue Jun 05, 2012 20:26

I just bought five gallons of 91 octane non-ethanol today and the price was $3.79. Regular ethanol (for my pickup) is runnning about $3.59 so about .30 difference. I ran pretty much only mogas in the Cherokee 140 when I owned it and so is the new owner. I'm pretty sure it has around 1600 hours on it by now. Had to replace one cylinder (scored) but I'd bet it was from a cold start with no preheat.

I pulled the plugs and looked in the cylinders on 0200 with my 'bend a light' and everything looks nice and clean.

MikeB

jc pacquin
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by jc pacquin » Fri Jun 08, 2012 20:35

The reason you and I are having very expensive ethynol added to our gas is a misconcived idea that it would eleviate our dependence on foreign oil. It was a really goofy premise and VERY expensive for the taxpayer. It is subsidized by US, the TAXPAYER at around 50 cents per gallon. Its not at all enviormentaly friendly either! When you consider the BTU'S necessary to grow corn, the fertilizer, the harvesting, the WATER used, etc. its really a stupid way to make fuel. BUT....the farmers really like it and they VOTE!

It also made food prices, especially beef prices soar! Sugar cane seems to be much better. 80 % of Brazil's cars run on it. As for the stock market, I am heavily involved in it as thats where my savings are to a great extent. Deregulation of the market both by Clinton (Glass-Stegal) and Bush (Chris Cox, his head of the SEC, stood by and did nothing while the banks and Wall Street had a field day with sub prime programs that even the head of the banks did not fully understand.) As for the former vice president, what I wrote has been well documented over and over again, written about endlessly and well known if you care to read.

As for Exxon....why should they get ANY government handout when they are the biggest and weathiest corp. in the WORLD!? Bush and Paulson started TARP, not Obama. In fact Paulson, (former head of Goldman Sachs!) stated when he employed its use, "Its what we are going to do and I don't have time to explain it right now.") Bush Started two wars and lowered taxes to a degree that put us in a terrible state of affairs. If lowering taxes for the rich to a great degree worked, then why did we lose almost a million jobs during his reign? Please explain. JP

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joea
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by joea » Thu Sep 06, 2012 19:17

JC,

Before I close this thread, lets try to keep your political comments in the OFF TOPIC section please?

EDGEFLY
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by EDGEFLY » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:56

Quick, before the door goes shut, anyone who has been able to find mogas available in the Northern Tier Pennsylvania/ Southern Tier New York area at airports please share the info and prices.

Dale

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Nathan K. Hammond
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by Nathan K. Hammond » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:22

AirNav is your best bet.

http://airnav.com/fuel/local.html

nkh
7AC-5691
Super 85-12F @ DVK

EDGEFLY
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by EDGEFLY » Fri May 03, 2013 08:34

News Flash ! Found out yesterday that one of the pilots in my hangar is using 91 Octane / Ethanol free fuel which is available from a Convenience store located on the route I take getting to the airport. He is transporting it to his c172 in 5 gallon cans and getting it into the tanks with a Siphoning device. He claims to have paid $4.20/gal versus the $6.50/gal the FBO is charging for 100LL. Still sounds like a lot of handling to me. Maybe I should invest in a tanker truck and park it outside the security fence-nope, that won't work. Surely someone with a camera would turn me in to Homeland Security as a terrorist!
Anyway, there is at least , a local supplier of Ethanol free fuel in the Southern Teir of NY.


Dale

MikeB
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by MikeB » Fri May 03, 2013 10:11

I've been trying to use 100LL as much as possible in the 0200 L16 or at least until I get 100 hours or so on it. I just built a fuel cart on wheels to haul about 50 gallons from a supplier to my hangar and have been waiting for the price to go down. Fat chance...I think right now it's around $5.80 or so :( . I can get 91 octane ethanol free for about $3.75 from the local Cenex station so that may be the route for me to go. I'd actually like to mix about 50/50 for at leas awhile.

Mike

Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by Jerry Eichenberger » Mon Jul 01, 2013 23:31

As the owner of an FBO who wishes we could sell auto fuel, let me address this a little.
We have several Rotax equipped homebuilts, and we also have a Tecnam in our rental fleet, so auto fuel would be great if we could solve some issues.

First is getting it without ethanol. Yes, a local distributor can do that, but only if we buy at least 4,000 gallons at a time, which leads to the short storage life of mogas as compared to avgas. Could we sell 4,000 gallons before it became stale, especially in the winter season? Doubtful.

Then, of course is storage and distribution. A retail seller can't just have a farm tank and pump. We have to have an approved tank and very accurate metering pump. That can run up to $25,000 even for an above ground system.

Next is insurance - who knows what our insurance company will have to say about selling mogas, again with the fairly short storage life.

So, maybe you folks will get some insight into why more FBOs don't sell it, even though we wish we could.

Jerry E.
Jerry A. Eichenberger
Columbus, Ohio
614-798-1600

EDGEFLY
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by EDGEFLY » Thu Nov 20, 2014 16:48

With the dramatic reduction in retail prices for ordinary automobile gasoline, is there any hope that this cost break will appear in 100 ll ? In northern Pa., we have seen a drop of more than $1/gal for regular unleaded Autogas over perhaps a year or so. If this would happen for 100ll, the price at local airports would be ~ $5.25/ gal. Too much to hope for I guess but it sure would be nice....


Dale

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joea
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by joea » Thu Nov 20, 2014 17:15

Dale,

Everything in this area is governed by the price of a barrel of oil. Now that this has gone down by a good amount the prices of 100LL should do the same... well if the system is not rigged that is.

All we have to do is look at the price of Diesel fuel to see that it IS rigged as diesel requires less refining and comes off of the cracking tree far before that of any gasoline, yet in my neck of the woods its almost $1.00 more expensive. Someone is making A LOT of $$ off of diesel fuel...

My partner in crime in the cockpit used to be the chief pilot for a large refining company and he confirms this...

Joe A

MikeB
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by MikeB » Thu Nov 20, 2014 21:36

I'm not sure the 'shelf life' of mogas is as short as folks are led to believe. My old faithful tractor (gas) sits around with old fuel in it for a couple of years and it starts and runs just fine (of course, I'm not flying it) I do tend to put non-ethanol (91 octane) in it although I have also used 10% ethanol (no stc required for a Farmall H :roll: ) and it doesn't mind that either. Having said that I still use a mix of 100 LL and mogas in my 0200 although I know if would run just fine on pure 91 non-ethanol mogas. As I posted above my Cherokee probably has 1600 hours on it and it ran a lot on mogas before and after I sold it. Often sat all winter, too.

Regarding the price of diesel fuel a winter blend is required in some parts of the country (like where I live) to prevent fuel jelling and I suspect the fact that diesel fuel and heating oil come from the 'same part of the barrel' may have something to do with increased price of fuel during the heating season and of course now we seem to have the need for 'low sulfur fuel' for highway use for the tree huggers. But I'm sure the refiners/distributors/retailers try to squeeze everything out they can. I will tell you a trade secret though: I've run various engines and equipment on a dyno with both heating oil (#2) and ' diesel fuel' (#2) and the power output is very close to the same.

Mike

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rkittine
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Re: Fuel Survey

Post by rkittine » Fri Nov 21, 2014 06:45

Unfortunately we bought our last 4,000 gallons at a high point and we are about breaking even with the cost of credit cards and bank fees at $6.25 per gallon for 100LL. Unfortunately we do not have enough aircraft on the field currently buying enough fuel to make a purchase and since people can fly 13 miles and get it $1.00 cheaper right now, it has further hurt us in making room to replace with some lower cost fuel. Since Vermont recinded the ethanol requirements, non-ethanol auto fuel has been coming across into New York and is available down around $3.15 per gallon further hurting our movement of high priced inventory.

Bob
Robert P. Kittine, Jr.WA2YDV
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C.
New York, New York 631-374-9652
rkittine@aol.com

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