1966 Citrabia 7ECA

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v1vrv2
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1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by v1vrv2 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 08:32

Hello

Anyone have any experience, knowledge, opinion on a 1966 Citabria 7 ECA on EDO’s 1650 floats ?

I am contemplating this setup, Ideally Id like to eventually get an Amphib float what would you suggest ?

Thanks for the inputs,

Robert

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rkittine
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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by rkittine » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:20

Robert,

What engine is in the ECA? I do not have experience with an ECA on Floats, but do have experience with a 7EC on Floats, EDO 92-1400s, which are allowed by the type certificate. The plane had a C-90-12 in it and with one person up from it performs well. If you put anyone in the back that is over about 150 pounds expect trouble getting onto the step. (with decient wind you can do it OK) Would expect with the added weight of the 1650s this would be worse, but do not know for sure. I do not know of any Amphis certificated in the U.S. for a 7EC, but again am not sure about a S7ECA. Baumann was working on as set for 7 Series Champs etc. but dropped it before they sold out.

My Chief could get two 220 pounders up with a Stroked C-85-12, but that is because even if over Max Gross Weight, it is all over the center of gravity unlike the back seat of a Champ.

I have a lot of experience in a 7GCBC with a HP-150 on 2000s. Not a steller performer, but better.

Bob
Robert P. Kittine, Jr.WA2YDV
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C.
New York, New York 631-374-9652
rkittine@aol.com

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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by joea » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:20

Bob, the original poster is up in the GWN, so he may have some options that are not available to use here in the states.

V1, (another Bob!)

I do not have that much experience with the Citab models but would do a good inspection on the airframe to check for corrosion, especially in the rear where the water drains. Also the wings have to be inspected every year in the spar area unless its been converted to metal spars, and would still IMHO inspect them throughly.

If its in good condition might be a great airplane for you!

Joe A

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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by jc pacquin » Sun Mar 24, 2013 15:26

What horsepower is it? I owned a 115 HP Eca and it was not a great takeoff and climb aircraft. You might try back country pilot.org as they fly floats a lot. I flew a taylorcraft on floats, 85 HP to get my rating. With two in it it was a struggle to get off, using quite a bit of room. My uneducated guess would be that the 150 HP Citabria would be a big improvement. Will you fly alone? This is another big consideration. Good luck! JP (my Eca was on wheels not floats)

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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by v1vrv2 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 06:02

Hi Guys, Hi Joe

And thanks for all the replies.
Now it has an O-235 engine, the seller says he spent 25,000 in rebuilding it in 2010 went A-Z on everything including new metal spars, fuselage, interior, paint, ect… I am waiting for a spec sheet on it I understand that these airframes are on the heavy side so that might limit useful load. It also includes skis and the wheel gear for 39,000.

Do you think an older Champ with an 0-200 would be a better choice, I really like the stick and the room a tandem offers.
Also what would the ideal float be for the Champs?

Thanks for the help

Robert

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rkittine
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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by rkittine » Mon Mar 25, 2013 08:25

Hi Robert,

With an 0-235 you should do a little better than a C-90. I have a C-90-8 in my Champ 7CCM and even without the starter, battery etc. it is not a very good performer with two on EDO 92-1400s. MY Chief with a Stroked C-85 is much better as I said. The 7EC is certified for EDO 92-1400s, which are less weight then the 1650s you were talking about, so I would suggest you look for a set of those.

The most active seaplane site is www.SeaplaneForum.com and if you sign up (there is no charge) tell Jason you heard about it from your Aeronca Friends. Lots of Aeronca Float planes there and I tell all of them to sign up here.

Good Luck.

Bob
Robert P. Kittine, Jr.WA2YDV
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C.
New York, New York 631-374-9652
rkittine@aol.com

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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by dikholder » Mon Mar 25, 2013 18:01

Bob:

If he really wants to do the amphib thing, what about Full Lotus?

Dik

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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by rkittine » Mon Mar 25, 2013 18:14

I guess maybe where he is. They are not certified on Champs in the States to my knowledge. Might find one of the few pair of 1500 Baumann Amphib Floats built, but never certified for the Champ and put them on with modified struts, but the first 10 pair were $26,000 each without installation or rigging. Don't think it would perform at all though with the Amphibs made for the Super Cub or Husky.
Robert P. Kittine, Jr.WA2YDV
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C.
New York, New York 631-374-9652
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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by jc pacquin » Mon Mar 25, 2013 21:02

I think Robert could answer this better than I but I would think a regular champ with an 0200 or an 85 with a Don Swords conversion might be a better choice. another thought is the Rans 7 which Peter Cowan has for sale near Toronto. The ROTAX 912 (100 hp.)is a great engine also but doesn't like Av gas at all. Whatever you do be sure and have someone with Roberts knowledge go over it carefully BEFORE YOU BUY IT, no matter what the owner says.The Rans courier in Canada has lotus floats and regular gear. I know nothing about lotus floats but they are very popular on Rans aircraft. (See barnstormers rans7.) Regards, JP

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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by jc pacquin » Mon Mar 25, 2013 21:02

I think Robert could answer this better than I but I would think a regular champ with an 0200 or an 85 with a Don Swords conversion might be a better choice. another thought is the Rans 7 which Peter Cowan has for sale near Toronto. The ROTAX 912 (100 hp.)is a great engine also but doesn't like Av gas at all. Whatever you do be sure and have someone with Roberts knowledge go over it carefully BEFORE YOU BUY IT, no matter what the owner says.The Rans courier in Canada has lotus floats and regular gear. I know nothing about lotus floats but they are very popular on Rans aircraft. (See barnstormers rans7.) Regards, JP

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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by jc pacquin » Mon Mar 25, 2013 21:02

I think Robert could answer this better than I but I would think a regular champ with an 0200 or an 85 with a Don Swords conversion might be a better choice. another thought is the Rans 7 which Peter Cowan has for sale near Toronto. The ROTAX 912 (100 hp.)is a great engine also but doesn't like Av gas at all. Whatever you do be sure and have someone with Roberts knowledge go over it carefully BEFORE YOU BUY IT, no matter what the owner says.The Rans courier in Canada has lotus floats and regular gear. I know nothing about lotus floats but they are very popular on Rans aircraft. (See barnstormers rans7.) Regards, JP

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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by jc pacquin » Mon Mar 25, 2013 21:04

I'm not too swift on an iPad.....sorry! JP

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rkittine
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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by rkittine » Tue Mar 26, 2013 06:34

I have flown a Chief with an 0-200 and a Chief with a C-85-12 Don's Dream Machine Stroker Conversion. I like the stroked C-85-12 better than the 0-200 for a couple of reasons. One technically the C-85-12 is an 85 HP Engine. With the added cubic inches (0-200 Crank and Pistons, Cam) it might be over 100 HP, but is not certificated as such. Therefore the 100 HP AD for the upper spar inspection ports is not required, though smart.

If you talke to Don, he will tell you that for a seaplane the best engine in this category is a Blue Printed C-90-12. As soon as my C-90 is ready for overhaul, it is getting exchanged thru Don for one of those. According to Don (and I have always been impressed with him and his engine knowledge) the C-90 has 105 FT Pounds more torque than an 0-200 and develops a higher percentage of it's rated HP at crusie RPM then an 0-200 something like 85 compared to 76 while still having 95 HP for 5 minutesd for take off with the C-90.

The other thing he likes is the C-90 is certified for more props than the 0-200.

But then we are back to the amphib question again. Here in the U.S. there doesn't seem to be a way to legally get a 7 Series Champ on any available amphib floats.

One last comment though, Bruce Dunham, who owned (as his father before him) the Little Ferry Seaplane Base in New Jersey, used Champs with C-90s on them for all his instruction. He did not like the desing of the 92-1400 EDOs and went through the STC Process to get approval for EDO 60-1320s on a 7CCM with a C-90-8. He swears by their performance, Jay J. Frey, past General Manager at EDO agrees that the design of the 1320 is better and if you keep the weight down in your Champ (simple seats, not lights etc.) that this is a winning combination.

The STC is $500 from Bruce.

Cheer and Have Fun on the Water - Bob
Robert P. Kittine, Jr.WA2YDV
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C.
New York, New York 631-374-9652
rkittine@aol.com

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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by jc pacquin » Tue Mar 26, 2013 14:33

Bill pancake agrees with Robert about don swords conversions. He told me this was the way to go and said the 85cont. Conversion would deliver an honest 100 HP. I always wanted more experience flying floats! If bob lived nearer I would have him show me more as flying on floats is fascinating to me. A 100 HP Champ is a great little airplane. Same with the Chief! JP

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rkittine
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Re: 1966 Citrabia 7ECA

Post by rkittine » Tue Mar 26, 2013 17:42

Get up here this Summer JC and we will splash around. Maryland is not that far. Maybe I will pop down. We'll get you the SES also.

Ciao
Robert P. Kittine, Jr.WA2YDV
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C.
New York, New York 631-374-9652
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