Alternator 337

Aircraft electrical systems. Generators, both engine and wind driven. Other electrical systems, wiring, fuses, lighting and so on.
Post Reply
jkvincent
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 22:34
Location: Houston, Tx
Contact:

Alternator 337

Post by jkvincent » Sun Jan 13, 2008 21:56

...anyone have a copy of a 337 for an Alternator? thanks, Jim

User avatar
joea
Site Admin
Posts: 6053
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 13:01
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Contact:

Post by joea » Mon Jan 14, 2008 00:24

If you are thinking of buying a B&C unit believe that they come with the paperwork needed to install them.

jkvincent
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 22:34
Location: Houston, Tx
Contact:

Post by jkvincent » Mon Jan 14, 2008 07:22

Joe, lookin' for a 337, ...looks like mine was converted from generator to alternator and logged but paper work never filed!!?? Jim
Last edited by jkvincent on Sun Dec 07, 2008 08:39, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
joea
Site Admin
Posts: 6053
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 13:01
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Contact:

Post by joea » Mon Jan 14, 2008 15:07

Jim,

What make is the alternator?

Joe

jkvincent
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 22:34
Location: Houston, Tx
Contact:

Post by jkvincent » Mon Jan 14, 2008 15:52

...?? not sure, the log shows it came off a "cessna 150"?

Update: Cessna 150 C611501-0201 (Autolite)
Jim
Last edited by jkvincent on Sun Dec 07, 2008 09:26, edited 1 time in total.

Classicaero
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 16:15
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Contact:

Post by Classicaero » Sat Dec 06, 2008 23:35

Certified aircraft require either an STC or FAA field approval to install an alternator that was not originally in the TC data. The B & C unit has an STC, but you must buy the approved kit and installation details from the STC holder (not B & C).
Doug Combs, for Classic Aero LLC.
Purveyors of lightweight alternators for vintage aircraft, parts for Cleveland and Goodyear Mechanical brakes, Ball bearing pulleys for Luscombe, Aeronca, and Taylorcraft,
support for Luscombe aircraft.

User avatar
joea
Site Admin
Posts: 6053
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 13:01
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Contact:

Post by joea » Sun Dec 07, 2008 08:36

Jim,

Did you ever find out anything else on this?

Joe

jkvincent
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 22:34
Location: Houston, Tx
Contact:

Post by jkvincent » Sun Dec 07, 2008 08:58

Since my original post (a year ago), I now know the two options are STC or Field Approval,
which we all know now, pretty much means one option,
...just having a little difficulty "swallowing" the idea of a $1000 Alternator.
Jim

User avatar
joea
Site Admin
Posts: 6053
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 13:01
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Contact:

Post by joea » Sun Dec 07, 2008 09:06

Have you confirmed the make and model of the alternator? We need that to see if anyone else has done this mod.

Joe

jkvincent
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 22:34
Location: Houston, Tx
Contact:

Post by jkvincent » Sun Dec 07, 2008 09:28

Update: Cessna 150, #C611501-0201 (Autolite)
I spoke to an Aviation shop that rebuilds Alternators and gave them this number (from the log book)
and they confirmed it is a 60 amp unit for a C150.
Jim

Classicaero
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 16:15
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Contact:

Post by Classicaero » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:44

jkvincent wrote:Since my original post (a year ago), I now know the two options are STC or Field Approval,
which we all know now, pretty much means one option,
...just having a little difficulty "swallowing" the idea of a $1000 Alternator.
Jim
Try this for analysis-
The B & C alternator is $575, regulator/Overvoltage and EMF suppression kit is $125 with some pieces to install it. Then you add circuit protection that is matched to the system (must be), and MIL-W wire for the safe installation, with a CB switch, terminal blocks, a chassis plate, gaskets, and sealer $100. OK, we are at $800.

Now this is an aircraft accessory, so it must be driven by a gear/hub/bushing/cup, & nut that is produced by Continental motors, and must be inspected for both condition and proper PN before service (Some early generator hubs have service difficulties, and are not eligible for installation on the Alternator.) The Continental drive when NEW is well over $700. Used they run from $300-550, IF you can find them. Lets assume the one you have on the generator is serviceable- the inspection time and magnaflux costs $50. Now we are at $850.

One must also have FAA approved certification data to install the device. An STC requires a plan, drawings, certification tests, research, engineering sign-offs, FAA review for about a year, and the issuance of an STC on the DATA. The cost of such a project is $8,000 to $30,000- BEFORE you sell a single unit. This must be re-paid in the form of a license fee to use the FAA approved data. (currently $100 per unit to the STC developer). We are now at $950 COST. (note that the STC holder will not recover his costs for many years under this rate)

If you want to sell the STC commercially, you must have a means to certify the parts, and an FAA PMA system to maintain and monitor quality. Initial FAA PMA certification costs $5,000 to $15,000, depending on the nature and quantity of the parts to be delivered- BEFORE you sell a unit. The ongoing costs of maintaining that system is $1,500/year for material and tooling certifications.

All of the above certification costs must be amortized in the price of the product delivered, or the supplier will not survive to support the product. $100 per unit is not unreasonable for the "PMA" costs given the fixed and ongoing costs of the system, and the fact that it takes nearly an hour to measure and certify each alternator kit for sale.

We are now at $1050 to produce the kit ready to ship with FAA certifications.

Shipping is $20-50.

Someone willing to do all of this is probably assuming they will earn a bit for the trouble, normal retail would be marked up 50-100% over the supplier costs. That takes you to $2000+ for the alternator.

Instead, it is sold for $795 as an introductory price. Losses are at least $255 per unit, but we are planning to make it up in volume :lol:



Alternately:
The cost of a DER for approved data to obtain data for a field approval (on one airplane) is going to be at least $750, and probably more like $1500-2000, since the DER has to assemble a report and testing materials that approximate the STC evaluation. Your IA then delivers all of this to the FAA and discusses it with them, and meets for the field 'inspection' at $40-$100 per hour to get their evaluation and stamp (IF that is even an option). Add $100-$500.
Cost of the 'field approved' alternator materials and approval is $850 + $850 to $2500 or, $1700 to $3350 to obtain the alternator and approvals.

If you want an improved, high quality product, you must agree to pay the price to obtain the benefits. If you want a $350 generator (for which regulators are obsolete or unavailable, (or solid state for $400), for a HEAVY generator that will need service (or more) each 300 hours, that is your choice.

More simply put, Whiskey costs money. Good whiskey is a little more expensive. The choice not to drink is free.
Doug Combs, for Classic Aero LLC.
Purveyors of lightweight alternators for vintage aircraft, parts for Cleveland and Goodyear Mechanical brakes, Ball bearing pulleys for Luscombe, Aeronca, and Taylorcraft,
support for Luscombe aircraft.

jkvincent
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 22:34
Location: Houston, Tx
Contact:

Post by jkvincent » Sun Dec 07, 2008 22:04

Doug thanks,
I truly appreciate the information and I know it cost a "bundle" to put something (FAA approved) out on the market today.
You made a very good case for the cost of your product but the fact is, in this economy (and with two girls in college)
if there were a cheaper alternative, (for my needs) I'd probably buy it.
My main goal (as most everyone else) is weight savings and you certainly offer that.
...anyway, I'll "swallow hard" because I'm very close to buying one of your Alternators/STC's, I think they're great units.
Jim

Classicaero
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 16:15
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Contact:

Post by Classicaero » Sun Dec 07, 2008 22:19

jkvincent wrote:Doug thanks,
I truly appreciate the information and I know it cost a "bundle" to put something (FAA approved) out on the market today.
You made a very good case for the cost of your product but the fact is, in this economy (and with two girls in college)
if there were a cheaper alternative, (for my needs) I'd probably buy it.
My main goal (as most everyone else) is weight savings and you certainly offer that.
...anyway, I'll "swallow hard" because I'm very close to buying one of your Alternators/STC's, I think they're great units.
Jim
I truly appreciate your position and consideration(s). I lead the pack in complaining about Univair and other parts provider's prices, until I learned the system and what was required to produce the parts for sale. Kinda got educated. (I am really a cheap SOB.)

Since few really understand what is involved, I try to explain how we get $10,000 toilet seats, and $1000 alternators. It is really a numbers game with limited demand, and high front loaded costs. One day I will be rich like all those folks building new airplanes.....?!?

An of course you know how make $1,000,000.00 in aviation. Right
- You start with $10,000,000.00

:roll:

Of course, if we were all really serious about loosing 12# for performance we would go on serious diets and exercise programs and get a twofer.
Doug Combs, for Classic Aero LLC.
Purveyors of lightweight alternators for vintage aircraft, parts for Cleveland and Goodyear Mechanical brakes, Ball bearing pulleys for Luscombe, Aeronca, and Taylorcraft,
support for Luscombe aircraft.

Post Reply