B&C alternator - STC for the C-85

Aircraft electrical systems. Generators, both engine and wind driven. Other electrical systems, wiring, fuses, lighting and so on.
Dusty
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Post by Dusty » Tue Nov 11, 2008 18:23

The 337 for my Wagner STC reads in full:

Inspected installation of Lycoming O-235-C1 engine and found it to be in accordance with STC SA3-372. Weight and balance and equipment list have previously been revised.
--------------------------------- END ---------------------------


I was wrong about the STC: It says nothing about electronics.

I probably should order the CD from OKC, but I'm kind of into the whole "ignorance is bliss" thing. :P

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joea
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Post by joea » Tue Nov 11, 2008 19:14

Is the generator on the W & B sheet? If yes, a new weight and balance can be preformed...

Would 100% get the CD from the Feds. It shows what they have on file.

Joe

Paul Agaliotis
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Post by Paul Agaliotis » Wed Nov 12, 2008 07:56

Roger,
If you don't want a transponder don't install one. Just be sure you are in compliance of the FAR's.
Paul
Mailing Adress : Paul Agaliotis 2060 E. San Martin, San Martin,Calif. 95046

Roger Anderson
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Post by Roger Anderson » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:16

Paul Agaliotis wrote:Roger,
If you don't want a transponder don't install one. Just be sure you are in compliance of the FAR's.
Paul
Oh, that wasn't me interested in one. I was just clarifying the lack of a requirement for one.

Paul Agaliotis
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Post by Paul Agaliotis » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:59

Thank you for your interpretation Roger,
I think it would be prudent for anyone interested to carefully read 91.215 for any concerns about the transponder requirements.
Paul
Mailing Adress : Paul Agaliotis 2060 E. San Martin, San Martin,Calif. 95046

Roger Anderson
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Post by Roger Anderson » Thu Nov 13, 2008 14:04

Hi guys/gals. This issue of what is actually said by 91.215 has been kicked around in the past numerous times. Unfortunately, 91.215 is difficult to read unless it's taken one sentence at a time. I am not interpreting what I think is intended, but clarifying what it actually says. In my past life, I briefed this subject and other issues. However, because things can change at a moments notice, I wanted to be sure that nothing had changed, something of which I was not aware. So I called a section manager at my FSDO, a person with whom I have worked for many years. He in turn, making sure he had not been left out of the loop if a change had occurred, then researched further within his office my questions regarding 91.215.

91.215 addresses the following. It does not in any way require an aircraft, just because the aircraft has an electrical system, to have a transponder (or radio). The only reference to the transponder itself is, if you do have a transponder, then it must be TSOd. If you do have a transponder, then it must be turned on, basically when in all but uncontrolled airspace (below either 1200 or 700 agl). 91.215 then tells you in which airspace a transponder is required. Specifically, if you wish to fly in class A, B, or C airspace, you must have a transponder. If you wish to fly within 30 nm of a class B airport, you must have a transponder. If you wish to fly above 10,000', you must have a transponder. If you wish to fly over the top of class B or C airspace, you must have a transponder. There are a few other little ditties, but that pretty much covers most of where we might wish to fly. Now, it does also add this. If your aircraft was not originally equipped with an engine driven electrical system, or hasn't had one added at a later time, you are exempt from some of the previously mentioned requirements. Specifically, you may fly with the 30 nm area around a class B airport as long as you don't enter the class B or any class C airspace itself. You may fly above 10,000' (yea...right...in my Chief?). 91.215 also says that if you do have a transponder and it breaks along you flight, you can request ATC to let you continue into airspace requiring a transponder, so you can get it fixed. Also, if you don't have a transponder, you can contact an ATC facility 4 hours ahead of time and maybe get permission to fly into airspace requiring one (I wouldn't make a habit of doing this or you will wear out your ATC welcome). And that's about it. It has a few more odds and ends, but nothing about a mandatory transponder installation just because you have an electrical system. Back to FSDO. He and his other staff persons specifically stated, in agreement with me, "no, no transponder required in an aircraft with an electrical system". Realistically, think about it. How many older aircraft have you seen or flown, or are listed on Barnstormers, that do have electrical systems, but don't have transponders and maybe not radios. C120/140, Luscombe 8E, Stinson, Colt, Supercub, Ercoupe, and the list goes on.

I just didn't want anyone to misunderstand 91.215 and end up installing something that they really didn't want. I encourage you to contact your FSDO whenever you might have questions. If you don't know anyone there, start by talking to the facility manager. Explain your issue. Then he/she can direct you to a member of the staff that specializes in that subject. And...keep in mind that even FAAers don't have all the regs memorized. Give them you thoughts and that may help them better sort out their answers for you.

I know....I need to get a life.

Mnflyer
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Post by Mnflyer » Thu Nov 13, 2008 19:18

Amen Roger, that's what my research turned up when I decided to reinstall the electrical system on my Champ a couple of years ago. Not only are there many many Champs. Cubs, C120/140/150 also C172's flying with out transponders but thousands of experimentals also. including my Kitfox.
GB MN.Flyer
Flying a Champ 7DC and a HKS Kitfox III

Classicaero
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Post by Classicaero » Sat Dec 06, 2008 22:38

OK, now that we have some definitive regulatory interpretation that favorably asserts that no transponder is required (but there my be flight area restrictions), with the use of an engine driven electrical system, I would like to point out that we have installed more than a few BC433 units under field approval and STC (since 2007).

All of those 30 Amp units weigh in at about 6.1#, and have a 2000 hour estimated time between overhauls. Details at http://luscombe.org/index.php?page=sdf. Cost is reasonable, and maintenance of the system is virtually nil with no moving electrical parts, no brushes, and full solid state regulation/sensing. Kit includes all wires, switches, lights gaskets and detailed instructions.
Doug Combs, for Classic Aero LLC.
Purveyors of lightweight alternators for vintage aircraft, parts for Cleveland and Goodyear Mechanical brakes, Ball bearing pulleys for Luscombe, Aeronca, and Taylorcraft,
support for Luscombe aircraft.

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