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Restoration questions

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 08:34
by ukfigs
Finally getting back into rebuilding my Champ project and have a couple of questions:
1. Fabric tape was used in many places to hold such things as fuel lines, bowden cables etc. to the frame. Looks like older impregnated fabric electrical tape. I have found the tape online but someone told me that the tape was painted with something to stop it peeling up, what is it painted with?
2. The project was a bucket of parts so figuring out the re-assembly has been interesting (some parts are missing), other than aircraft spruce, Univair and Wag Aero is there a resource that does not charge an arm and a leg for parts ( $11 each for the rudder pedal springs :cry: )
3. The project is a 7FC converted to a 7EC, will a Citabria windshield fit? Big difference in price between the 7EC and Citabria windshield
4. What is the part number for the aluminum washers that go under the PK screws that attach the fabric to the ribs
5. Possibly looking for a used rudder as bottom of the tail post is badly corroded.

Apologize for so many questions, I have built my RV-7 but this is my first fabric aircraft project.
Dave (Figs) Figgins

Re: Restoration questions

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 05:20
by hangerash

Lots of good questions that I can't clearly respond to. The brain trust is assembled in Middletown for the next two days so give it a couple of days before someone can respond adequately.

The friction tape has been painted with various products from varnish to poly-tak

Wag-Aero has those fabric washers and they are steel

I and others have used rudders or can help you repair yours.

Re: Restoration questions

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 09:11
by ukfigs
Some additional restoration questions from my earlier post based on trying to figure out how the bucket of bits is supposed to go back together:
1. On the firewall flange it looks like a combination of anchor nuts and either rivet holes or screw holes, I assume the anchor nuts hold the rear of the top and bottom cowls in place so is the forward skin (under the windshield) riveted to the firewall or screwed with PK's to the firewall. I assume that this skin is semi permanent as the windshield appears to be glued in place.
2. Still would like to know if the Citabria windshield would fit
3. Need to find two throttle knobs, the aviation department of Home Depot does not have suitable candidates.
4. The 3-1619 Tail Wheel Arm that I found does not fit, it has a 1 inch shank and the rudder has one inch tubing but had a 3/4 inch insert in it for the arm (the arm was missing). As the tube is badly corroded I need to cut it off and repair with a 3/4 inch insert doubler. I found a 3/4 inch shank tail wheel arm on wag aero but it is for Cubs etc, will this work (seems to be a Scott arm with similar dimensions to the 1619 part and I have a Scott tailwheel). I am still interested in a replacement rudder frame at the right price if someone has one to sell verses repairing the lower end of the existing rudder.
5. What do most people do for the panel/dash cover? The original cardboard cover is falling apart so I was thinking of making an aluminum replacement covered with vinyl.
6. My Champ was a 7FC converted to a 7EC, in the manual it shows both cables and rods connecting the fwd and aft rudder pedals, I had neither so made cables, is that the correct choice?
7. I am thinking of retaining the generator and starter on the C90-12F to save some $$, any problems with this approach?
Thanks for any input.

Re: Restoration questions

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:14
by hangerash
Well you have a rather LARGE list of questions I will attempt to respond to from my experience.

1. On the firewall flange
The wraparound or boot cowl as it is sometimes refered to is riveted to the firewall flange. The top and bottom engine cowls are secured to the firewall flange/wraparound with a combination of screws and fasteners, depending who has 'improved' upon the original design.

2. Still would like to know
If the windscreen is for a 7ECA, I am confident it will fit BTDT. The difference is the shape is more streamlined rather than the bubble appearance of the original. YOU DO HAVE TO FIT IT regardless of the type you have or buy and a 1/4' router bit in a die grinder serves as a suitable trimming tool.

3. Need to find two throttle knobs
I have a bag full I bought off of Ebay (user supplied parts section ;)). Let me know your mailing address and I will post them to you.

4. The 3-1619 Tail Wheel Arm
Yes the Wag Aero part will work. I also have several rudder frames and some steering horns. I don't recall the shank on the steering horns at this time. 419 three 0 five 36 seven 6

5. What do most people do for the panel/dash cover?
I replaced my instrument panel with one from Wag Aero. Original was looking like swiss cheese. I didn't have any cardboard anywhere that I recall.

I re-read your question and if you are talking about the part of the wraparound between the dash and the windscreen, I covered the metal with Stewarts Eko-bond and then laid black fabric over it. The fabric was then secured with a small sealing iron at 225 degrees.

6. My Champ was a 7FC converted to a 7EC
I am speculating (guessing) because the 7ECA I owned had rods between the front and rear rudder pedals and the 7CCM has cables, so talk with your IA and see what he thinks. He is the one who has to approve the aircraft for conforming to the TCDS and approving it for continued airworthiness.

7. I am thinking of retaining the generator and starter
Not a problem at all and you will definitely save dollars, but carry a few extra pounds. The lightweight alternator and starter are attractive when you are nose heavy.

Now I feel like I've finished Chapter 1. Good luck and hopefully Paul A will correct my observations.

Re: Restoration questions

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:38
by hangerash
Chapter 2 - I just looked at your first post again and having recovered from my Middletown adventure will pass along my observations.

1. Fabric tape was used in many places
I believe you are refering to friction tape used by electricians. This was used to prevent chafing and because there is very little adhesive it was secured to prevent it from unwrapping with shelac or poly-tac.

2. The project was a bucket of parts so
Well you can reproduce some parts yourself using the Aeronca drawings, other parts such as springs can be found at the Aeronca Champ Experience (ACE is the place) or the Taylorcraft Service Center (TSC in most rural communities). You must however determine it is of suitable quality and will perform as well or better than the part it is intended to replace.

3. The project is a 7FC converted to a 7EC, will a Citabria windshield fit?
Yes. I noted the difference as I understood it in Chapter 1

4. What is the part number for the aluminum washers that go under the PK screws
I could look it up and you would probably get the wrong part as I did. Simply call Wag Aero and ask for their Aeronca specialist. Tell him you want the fabric washers for PK screws and he (maybe a she now) will get you what you need. (they are not cheap so save any you find and clean them up)

5. Possibly looking for a used rudder
Well I have several uncovered frames.

Dave sorry no one else has had the time to comment. Everyone I know in the know was at Middletown and I presume they are catching up from being away.

Re: Restoration questions

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 17:02
by ukfigs
Thanks a bunch for the responses, very helpful. The boot cowl feedback is interesting because I assumed (incorrectly) that due to the two long bolts on the bottom the cowl was to designed to be openable for inspection purposes etc.

I will call you ref the throttle knobs and a rudder frame.

Is this your website, very useful . When I was building my RV-7 there were a number of websites that were very useful to help figure out some of the steps. I have found a few other Champ resource sites that have useful info.

I know you have just finished your convention but will there be people attending Oshkosh for some discussion? I read some interesting articles by Bill Pancake about moving the battery aft to improve the CG/handling, on the FC the battery mount is on the firewall, I could achieve similar results by putting in an Odyssey PC680 versus the typical concord and save money and weight. It would be good to understand these trade offs as I am putting the fuselage back together and because I have just started wiring everything up. On my RV I put a 60 amp ANL fuse and a shunt between the alternator and the master contactor but I do not see anything like that on the 7EC/FC electrical diagram between the generator and the contactor or in the original wiring harness. Trying to decide if I should I put this or a CB to be ready for an alternator upgrade in the future?

Anyway thanks for the feedback, this is all part of the fun of flying something you basically built yourself :)

Re: Restoration questions

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 20:46
by hangerash

Yest that was my website. I used it to document my work for my IA and then to supplement the records I presented to the FAA to prove I had the required experience to take the A&P exam.

You are correct about the two long bolts at the bottom of the wraparound(boot cowl). They are taken out at the annual to expose the structure and foot pedals for inspection.

Circuit breakers are the way to go. If you are thinking about and alternator plan ahead for two breakers. You will need one for and to open the field winding.

Oshkosh will again have the most knowledgeable people attending and many questions can be answered face to face. Don't hesitate to call Bill Pancake. He is the tech advisor for the NAA and welcomes the opportunity to discuss problems with owners.

NAA Tech Advisor - Bill Pancake 304-788-1974 - Eastern Time Zone 9AM to 5PM

Please respect the time zone and don't expect him to be home before, during or after Oshosh.