Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Insurance and various paperwork needed for our planes
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skookum
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Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by skookum » Sat Apr 21, 2012 19:44

Does anyone have any experience with Butler-Brown Insurance, a division of MidWestOne Insurance Services, Inc.? I just received a quote from them which is about 20% less than my current carrier - AOPA.

Would appreciate any knowledge that might be out there about this carrier or AOPA, for that matter.

Thank you.

pablo
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by pablo » Sat Apr 21, 2012 20:52

They insured aircraft that are AAA (Antique Aircraft Association) registered members with headquarters in Blakesburg, IOWA (IA27).
Excellent coverage at very good price (including the annual fee to the AAA).

Pablo

skookum
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by skookum » Sun Apr 22, 2012 20:51

Thank you Pablo. I will give them a call to start my policy.

David - aka Skookum in Vermont

Dennis
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by Dennis » Mon Apr 23, 2012 16:50

At our last EAA chapter meeting, our speaker was the owner of an aviation insurance company. The following is what he told us, hope I get it straight. With the exception of Avemco, all agents simply write policies through only about 6 or so brokers. All the brokers are tied together through the internet. When you get a quote from one broker through a particular agent, all the other brokers are aware of it. So when you request a quote from a second agent, he will shop the same six brokers. At least that is what we were told.

Dennis

Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by Jerry Eichenberger » Wed May 02, 2012 17:04

Dennis -

You have it half right. The wrods "agent" and "broker" are one and the same.
A broker places your coverage with an insurance company, called the insurer, or the carrier, or sometimes the underwriter. I prefer to say carrier.
So, your agent calls several carriers, if he does a good job, he gets several quotes, then he should present all of the quotes to you, discuss the differences in each in terms of what coverage is afforded, what exclusions apply, etc., then let you decide which to buy. They ARE NOT all the same.
If your broker just ells you that you can have insurance for $XXX, ask him from which carrier, what are their exclusions, how many other quotes did he obtain, and why he didn't offer you all of them and explain all of them to you.

Buying insurance is not like buying cans of beans at your grocer. Price is only one component of the buying decision.
Jerry A. Eichenberger
Columbus, Ohio
614-798-1600

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rkittine
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by rkittine » Wed May 02, 2012 17:09

I also found a lot of discrepencies when getting Hull Insurance and always make sure that I get Stated Value insurance, which will pay the value I am insuring for and not some Blue Book type value for a total loss.
Robert P. Kittine, Jr.WA2YDV
West Nyack Aviation, L.L.C.
New York, New York 631-374-9652
rkittine@aol.com

MikeB
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by MikeB » Wed May 02, 2012 20:46

I don't know if there is such a thing as a Blue Book value on our old timers. Especially since there is such a difference in equipment and condition. You can have an old raggedy 7AC with 30 year fabric and a A65 engine or a 7AC with a Super 85 engine, new fabric. Whenever I apply for an insurance quote I usually have to place a reasonable value on it. Hope I never have to collect, though.

MikeB

Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by Jerry Eichenberger » Thu May 03, 2012 08:42

I have never seen aviation hull coverage that was anything but stated value. The book value approach, or fair market value, applies many to auto insurance collision and comprehensive coverages.
Jerry A. Eichenberger
Columbus, Ohio
614-798-1600

Dennis
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by Dennis » Thu May 03, 2012 14:13

Jerry, I was trying to trying to say that we were told by the agent that, excluding Avemco, for a given set of parameters, the quote will be the same regardless of the agent you talk with.

Is this not correct?

Dennis

Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by Jerry Eichenberger » Thu May 03, 2012 14:19

Dennis -

Yes. Any agent/broker would get the same quote from the carrier, assuming he doesn't lie.

My wife is an agent - years ago, a 68 year old woman with a private, no instrument rating, and about 600 hours total wanted a quote on a Comanche. Of course, it came back quite high.
She went to another agent, who gave her a quote at about half the price that my wife obtained. My wife smelled a rat, and called the underwriter at the quoting carrier. That underwriter told her that the second agent had called for a 38 year old woman with private and instrument, and 6,000 hours total.

Whenever something is too good to be true, it probably is. Choose your agent on service and integrity, not price.
Jerry A. Eichenberger
Columbus, Ohio
614-798-1600

Dennis
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by Dennis » Thu May 03, 2012 19:38

"Choose your agent on service and integrity, not price."

Jerry,

That is exactly what we were told at the EAA chapter presentation.

Dennis

jc pacquin
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by jc pacquin » Thu May 03, 2012 20:29

I have been with Avemco for over 30 years. I never had a claim until two years ago when a hangar collapsed on the hangar I rented due to snow overload. The Avemco adjuster came, in bad weather, in three days, looked at it, took some pictures and stated "You will have the full amount that you insured it for (26,000.00) within 10 days." This happened as foretold!, no beating around the bush. He spoke with me about insurance for a while and reminded me that they are DIRECT, no middle man and that often times agents quote low prices....but.. the coverage is full of "Oh we forgot to tell you type things". One I remember was Air shows and fly ins. He explained that many policys do not cover you for this type of gathering especially if it is an uncontrolled field. Cavaet Emtore or in other words cheap is often times expensive. They also are VERY easy to reach and speak with by phone, extremely courteous and helpful and will switch to just hull insurance in the winter if you don't care to fly in lousy weather, say from jan, to march. This knocks down the price a good bit. I insure to the hilt for 1,200.00 per year. This included two other people covered flying my airplane, both well rated in taildraggers and in addition anyone working on my airplane with license to do so. JP

Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by Jerry Eichenberger » Fri May 04, 2012 09:34

JP -
Avemco is a very good company and they pay their claims, as you experienced.
However, their coverages for liability were per person the last I knew, not per passenger when it comes to applying the sublimit, typically $100K, to a third partry liability claim.
Many companies apply the sublimit only to passengers, and apply the full aggregate limit, typically $1 Million, to a person outside of the airplane.
If this is still true, it makes a huge difference in how much protection you have for claims by persons outside of the airplane.
Again, always get a thorough explanation of what are policy provides. And, Avemco may well have changed their policy - I haven't reviewed one for years.
But in the end, again they are a very good company and pay claims very promptly with no hassle.
Jerry A. Eichenberger
Columbus, Ohio
614-798-1600

jc pacquin
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Re: Insurance - Butler-Brown, any feedback would be helpful

Post by jc pacquin » Fri May 04, 2012 21:07

You might want to call them and then you will be up to date. They will explain it quickly and simply. I have FULL coverage. JP

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