15AC Left Side Door

Aeronca Sedan Airplanes
Post Reply
bsafran
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 09:39
Contact:

15AC Left Side Door

Post by bsafran » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:53

I am trying to get an approval for a Sedan left side door that is hinged like the right side and swings forward. If you look at Matt's Sedan Gallery on http://www.n1331H.com, you can see that N1308H (15AC-338) and G-AREX (15AC-061) have the type door I am interested in. N1492H (15AC-416) has the same set up, but with no good pictures on Matt's site. There is also a Sedan in Brazil with pictures on the internet with the same door style. As you can probably guess, there is no paperwork documenting the door on any of these planes. Are there any other Sedans out there with a forward swinging left door? I could use your help!

Mickey
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 16:34
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by Mickey » Thu Apr 04, 2013 17:35

Why would you want a forward swinging door, the seaplane door is already approved and in my opinion a better solution.

bsafran
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 09:39
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by bsafran » Thu Apr 04, 2013 20:40

I have been pondering the future of our brand of old aviation for quite a few years now. I have invested time and money to try and save Aeroncas that were falling by the wayside so that they would be available to the next generation of owners. I also see an opportunity to enhance an old time airframe, not only for my own use, but for anyone else who might share the same vision.

Most Sedan owners are elderly. They bought their planes decades ago when it was easy to swing that door up on the far side of their reach. The gas powered cylinders that assist weren't available back when the STC was approved. A forward swinging door helps them. That is why I am so pissed that Mickey has an opinion that he felt he needed to express that I don't need to try and replicate something that has already been done. Strong sentiment from someone who has only 10 postings to the website.

I have sought out every Sedan owner I could during my travels across the country as a corporate pilot and have discovered many alterations that are both benificial and some perhaps questionable. But Mickey has convinced me I am done. I am so tired of people talking down and so few people doing anything to assist the cause they care for. Mickey, you are the future of NAA. I will continue to do everything I can to assist Aeronca owners, but not with this organization.

User avatar
Nathan K. Hammond
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 00:22
Location: Danville, KY (DVK)
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by Nathan K. Hammond » Sat Apr 06, 2013 17:09

Damn Brian, chill out.

nkh
7AC-5691
Super 85-12F @ DVK

User avatar
Matt
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 09:57
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by Matt » Sat Apr 06, 2013 17:34

Brian

Just sent an email to the owner/operator of PT-AMV in Brasil: http://www.institutoarrudabotelho.org.br (a government organization for the preservation of the country's environment, history and culture). Will email you, as soon as I receive anything from them.

Matt
Aeronca 15AC Sedan – Restoring and flying the classic 4-seater: http://www.n1331h.com

deCreeft
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 00:26
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by deCreeft » Fri Apr 12, 2013 15:52

Brian ! Whoah, Big Fella !!

I'm 80, solo'd in a champ in 1951 so been loving airknockers for a long time...

I put in a door right off the Specs...LH door. it goes up. My left shoulder is destroyed from falling on the ice and my right shoulder is a metal "doorknob and my left hip has undergone total replacement three times over the last thirty years...So!

I saw the LH door on the spec sheet, called Canada and got the blueprint, got the door installed by A&P, got approval and a logbook entry ("Spec Item", remember) and went to work hauling passengers with FAA approval under my (FAA LOA (Letter of Approval...I used to be Part 135 Air Carrier Cer. with CAB (even operated 1929 Travel Air under that Certificate for 40 years along with beavers and otter

"The Compliance Attitude" doncha know !?!.

So everything by the book.

Including the door lifter from NAPA.

Then I got old and started to fall apart,not the airplane.

The door maintains the look of the original, uses same windows and side cover...and it's as old as any of them .

Lot easier to open against the wind for taxiing.

This is from memory...but I think it;s spec item #19; Leaven's Bros. , Canada. If yer still talking give me a number ; I'll call you...anybody.

Bill
Alaska
Bill de Creeft

Mickey
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 16:34
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by Mickey » Fri Apr 12, 2013 23:09

Leavens Bros went out of business a couple of years ago, don't know who has the STC now.
Maybe Burl?

User avatar
Matt
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 09:57
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by Matt » Sat Apr 13, 2013 03:23

Yes, the STC for the upward-swinging left door, installed on most Sedans with a left door, is now available from Burl: http://burlac.com/Services.html (under "Aeronca Sedan STC's"). But remember, guys, Brian was explicitly asking for help and documentation in relation to a forward-swinging door.

Matt
Aeronca 15AC Sedan – Restoring and flying the classic 4-seater: http://www.n1331h.com

deCreeft
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 00:26
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by deCreeft » Sat Apr 13, 2013 15:54

Hi Matt
I talked to Brian on the phone about this so at least he has some pros and cons...
Also i mentioned that i think I have seen some mention in Aeronca Sedan paperwork concerning a left hand door as an option, but I can't back that up with anything, and as I remember Burl could not come up with anything either.

I'm sure glad Burl has a seaplane door option now....it's pretty necessary on floats because of the prop blast if taxiing up to a dock on a windy day.

There was also a stretcher available at one time and Burl has never found anything on that either, at least as far as I know;
I wanted to see what that looked like for use as a 'camping mod'.

I'm still researching the cost of replacing all four attach angles for recertification as in the case of mine where there was a pretty clumsy repair done and angles were spliced and the spar web messed with.
Parts will not be a problem...but can't find a bid on that job.

Then, because of age and health, I'll be interested in selling a very nice little Sedan with everything else done !

Hard to offer a price with that big unknown...

Bill
Bill de Creeft

User avatar
Matt
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 09:57
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by Matt » Sat Apr 13, 2013 18:07

Hi Bill

It's good to hear from you, but sad to learn about the spar difficulties. I really hope, you will find a reasonable solution and will be able to enjoy your beautiful Sedan, again!

I certainly didn't mean to criticise any post contributions, just hoped that maybe someone would know someone who has an approved forward-swinging left door.

Here is one more, rather unique, variation of an upward-opening door on N1031H: http://n1331h.com/sedan_gallery/15ac-34 ... 1h_04.html

Matt
Aeronca 15AC Sedan – Restoring and flying the classic 4-seater: http://www.n1331h.com

deCreeft
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 00:26
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by deCreeft » Sat Apr 13, 2013 19:54

Hello Matt
That looks like an example of the "Leavens Bros. LH Door...the type i was talking about (Canadian designed, but an Aeronca Sedan 'Spec Item' so already approved...)

The paint scheme is familiar to me since it was copied from the paint scheme I used on my Travel Air when I restored it :
www.alaskaseaplanes.com look at "restoration 2002" ...also on the left hand side of the page and you will see where it says 'floatplane' and if you click on that it will put you on a page with a video of the 1929 S6000B Travel Air with me flying over the glaciers (4650 1934 Edo floats) here in Homer, Alaska.

when you get on there ,send me an email, and I can give you the details on the sedan when I get the work done and think I can sell it.

Bill
Bill de Creeft

User avatar
esandberg
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 17:19
Location: So California
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by esandberg » Sun Apr 14, 2013 00:47

Brian, I owe you an apology. I told you by email this week that the Levens Bros door from line 601 in the Type Certificate has a forward hinge like you're looking for and I was wrong. It's a top hinge like Bill D describes above. Complete brain-fart, sorry. You wouldn't think I'd get that one wrong but I pulled it off. The only way it's a forward hinge is if you're pointed straight down, which then there's a short list of reasons of why you'd even need a door by then.

It's worth pointing out here that Bill D maybe erred on the side of safety in getting approval for his Levens installation: since the door's in the Type Certificate, it's already Approved Data and another approval (or 337) wasn't required if he followed that drawing+instructions--just a logbook entry. The Levens door isn't an STC, Field Approval, or Major Alteration even though you're cutting pieces out of the side of the airplane with a SawzAll. (It's harder than you think to convince people that doing things to your airplane with a cutting torch, grinder & MIG welder isn't somehow a Major Alteration.)

Hope this finds you well,
Eric

deCreeft
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 00:26
Location: Alaska
Contact:

?

Post by deCreeft » Sun Apr 14, 2013 02:12

Hi Eric

It was the mechanic that performed the work that wanted to submit the 337 and one doesn't argue with the mechanic at the end of the road in Alaska !?!...and different Inspectors don't always read from the same book...so we crossed all the indicated T's and dotted all the I's and it went through just fine;... there have been times when no approvals were obtainable without considerable delay.Also because of my shoulder I really wanted a door lift so that went in with the package.
I realize that only a log book entry was necessary for a spec item...but sometimes if you don't argue you dont need to win !

The drawing doesn't give much detail, but all that is needed.
It uses the original sliding window, and airplane looks very original, and very easy to use. .

I think the more modern ones use a clear plexiglas panel for the view down for fish spotting....

Bill
Bill de Creeft

User avatar
joea
Site Admin
Posts: 6044
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 13:01
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Contact:

Re: 15AC Left Side Door

Post by joea » Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:13

Bringing an old thread back to life.

Brian,

Did you ever pull the FAA data CD's on the airplane you mentioned above? N1308H. I am looking for some info on this airplane and thought I would ask before I spent the $$ and time to do so...

Thx,

Joe A

PS no I do not want the LH door, wanted some other info on this airplane.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest