7AC conversion to 7BCM

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Jim McCartney
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7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Jim McCartney »

I noticed in the FAA website that my Champ was showing a manufacturing date in 1956. I have the original factory invoice showing 1946, as it should be. I contacted the local FSDO to get this corrected. Upon reviewing the paperwork, they discovered that the airworthiness certificate was counterfit. I asked what I needed to do the get this resolved. They said to begin with, contact American Champion to see if they will issue a new data plate, showing the conversion. Meanwhile, they grounded the aircraft until this is resolved. Does anyone have any suggestions? What can I do if American Champion won`t issue a new data plate? Thank you, Jim

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hangerash
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by hangerash »

What a 'bummer'.

I would contact Oklahoma City to resolve the date issue and not the local FSDO.

There are data plates available which accurately reflect the required information. It is necessary to have that information correctly stamped.
Richard

Jim McCartney
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Jim McCartney »

I contacted Ok city and they told me to contact the FSDO. I`ll let everyone know how this shakes out.

Dennis
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Dennis »

I wonder if a DAR could help you?



Dennis

Paul Agaliotis
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Paul Agaliotis »

Jim,
It's not too big of a deal to have the FAA records incorrect. They came into being about the 1956 date, so it could have been nothing more than a typo on the records transfer. With the FAA wanting you to replace the DATA plate I think there must be more to this story. The A/W certificate is an easy fix, the DATA plate is not. I am curious why they believe it would be "counterfeit". As long as it has the correct information and is fireproof, that's about all required. See if the FAA can provide a FAR to support their claims. It should be something more than their "catch all" FAR 43.12.
Paul
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skyking3286
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by skyking3286 »

Wasn't it about that time that the annual inspection made the plane airworthy with a new certificate? Seems to me that the SEA FSDO told me something to that effect, when my records for the AC started to have issues about the mid-1950s. They issued a new AC to me, based on the
dataplate and the records they had. It wasn't a big deal and they said they had a lot of planes in that time period that had issues. Which is why the changed the rule to want we are using now.

Relying on 30 year old memory of a conversation....
Mark Peterson
Harvey Field, WA
A copy of my old Chief website is preserved here:

http://www.reocities.com/mrpeters.geo/index.html

Dennis
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Dennis »

I was also referring to the change in AW procedures about 1956. Prior to them, you received a "new" AW certificate with each annual. About 1956, the FAA started to issue a "permanent" AW certificate that was only valid with an annual signoff. Several plane owners in this era, never applied for the new AW certificate. Interesting was the continuation of annual inspections in the log books. My champ fell in this crack. The FAA told me they could come out to do an inspection and issue a new AW certificate but they had a year backlog. (yea right). Or I could call a DAR. The DAR came out the following week and issued the new AW certificate for the paltry sum of $800 plus travel.

That is why I suggested you call a DAR.

Good luck, Dennis

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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Paul Agaliotis »

I find this problem with project aircraft. No one got the permanent A/W certificate as the plane was apart. Fast forward to 2016 and you need to do a conformity inspection. If you have the last issued A/W and a sign-off they should be able to print one up for you, always ask for a replacement not a new A/W cert.
At Annual the paperwork should be in order and there is no excuse for missing the easy ones. The biggest issue would be with the owner/operator, this is one of the few items they are responsible for prior to operating the aircraft.
Paul
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Jim McCartney
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Jim McCartney »

Well, the FSDO called and said the Airworthiness certificate was not a counterfeit. Just one they had not seen before. What a relief! Maybe they should have done their homework before they scared the hell out of me! Anyway, American champion said they will issue a new data plate for $100. However, they require a letter from the FSDO. The FSDO wants to look at the logbooks and all supporting paperwork, including, 337`s, STC`s, before they will initiate the letter. The modifications were done according to service letter 13, for the change from 7AC to 7BCM. I should be alright. Thanks for all your input. Jim

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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Paul Agaliotis »

Great to hear Jim,
If there is any thing we at the NAA site can do please ask.
Paul
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hangerash
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by hangerash »

Very good news indeed Jim!

Don't let the FSDO get overwhelmed with the paperwork. The more you can resolve so they can follow the trail the better.
Richard

Jim McCartney
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Jim McCartney »

More questions. Service letter #13 only shows a C85-8. I have a C85-12. The FSDO wants to see supporting paperwork for this conversion. Is any available? Also, I have Cessna 150 exhaust. The SL calls out Hanlon-Wilson. Is there supporting paperwork for the Cessna exhaust? I can hardly wait to see what else they come up with! Thanks again, for all your help. Jim

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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Paul Agaliotis »

Jim,
The first page of the Service Manual shows that the C85 is a series of engines. The -8 has no provision for starter/generator, the -12 has the starter/generator installed. So a -8 would be the same as a -12 with the starter/generator removed. The dash number only refers to the modification level of the C85 series engine.
You could use the AC for the vintage aircraft to support the installation of the 150 system.
Paul
Mailing Adress : Paul Agaliotis 2060 E. San Martin, San Martin,Calif. 95046

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hangerash
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by hangerash »

The good news Jim is when you have complete this task you will have educated one ASI about vintage aircraft :D
Richard

Jim McCartney
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Re: 7AC conversion to 7BCM

Post by Jim McCartney »

Gentlemen, thank you so much for your expertise and knowledge! I am trying to procure a copy of the STC for the C85-12 conversion from Charlie Lasher or his grandson, but so far no response. Does anyone have a copy of that STC? Thanx again, Jim

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